Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back guys and thank you for joining me for another episode of her Heads in the Cloud.
This is a special one because I've got Sirisha joining me who's currently an engineering manager at myob, but I'll let you introduce yourself properly, Sirisha.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Yep, thank you, Igla.
Hey everyone. I'm Suresha and I started my career maybe 14 years ago when I joined as a graduate as an associate engineer.
Those early years I primarily worked as a systems administrator and on, on premise cloud solutions and then slowly grow into the cloud based environments. So as the industry evolved, I think I kind of grew with it and picked up the roles as they evolve. Today I'm currently an engineering manager in MYOB and I'm privileged to lead cloud engineering and pathway engineering CI CD teams.
My focus is now on creating an environment where engineers can do their best work, whether it is driving cloud modernization or strengthening the reliability practices, or transforming how we build and deploy the software.
So, yep, here I am.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you so much Sirisha.
And we'll dive straight into our first topic.
But what initially first sparked your interest in people leadership?
Was there a particular moment where you realized this is my space?
[00:01:33] Speaker B: I think my interest in people leadership, it did not happen through a single moment. It kind of builds up over the time.
I think I've always believed that everyone has something special that they do really well, something which is unique to them.
But without realizing it, naturally I went into that leadership space because of like sharing ideas, improving the process, helping each other, even if it's in the complex situations, working through solutions.
And I did not think that was my strength. All the way through more projects, I think I saw those opportunities to make things better.
Whether it was writing a clear email to a customer or documenting the steps and sharing with the team members.
And everyone slowly leaned on me more than I expected.
They were coming to me for more suggestions or mentorship coaching.
I think it's mainly we don't look for someone to do it for us, but just take that step, keep volunteering for things, putting myself out there, trying new things.
So I think it's naturally came in where I found that that's my best strength.
So when I picked up more, I think it impacted people around me more in a positive way.
And that's when it sparked a moment, I guess maybe saying okay, that's, that's my strength naturally, so I should keep doing it more, which will help everyone around me as well.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. And it seems like you've absolutely strived in that environment. So it's glad that you realized that change.
Could you potentially share a defining moment or perhaps challenge that has shaped how you lead today?
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think follow on from that previous question. I think when I saw that genuine support, guidance and being leaders where we can unblock people to continue their momentum and their energy in their day to day.
I've been in that situation where sometimes I see that guidance missing or I did not get that enough support.
But there were also situations where there was lots of mentorship and leaders who made a huge difference in my career.
I think that moment where it hit me how important it is to have that mentorship and guidance and the leadership coming for support and how it was helpful to drive our career.
And the funny thing was I didn't always appreciate that when the leaders were shaping that for me, I felt like it was not what I wanted to do.
But then when I look back, it all made sense. How I evolved over the time, how it actually takes a huge impact in how we shape ourselves.
Like could be willing to share the feedback even if it's uncomfortable.
Like that is one of the greatest gifts I think you can give someone giving that honest feedback and transparent inputs into how things can shape. Because sometimes we just don't see it naturally where we are lacking.
But the real mentor or a true leader will find, will notice that and share.
So I think we should be in that open space to view.
So yeah, career growing is where the defined the leadership for me and how I lead it. Like considering the people's requirements inputs and the genuine care and support for them.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. And just on that topic of mentorship, is there any advice that you could give to anyone that's starting off. Is there a particular way that you found your mentors? I know sometimes you might stumble across them from a company that you work at or what. What would you. Yeah. Is there anything you're able to share on that front?
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Yeah, that. That's a really good one. Because when we try to start any new job or a role, we always maybe sometimes hesitate. Should we ask the question or should we just hold ourselves back?
But you know, take the step ahead and it's fine to not know it all, but not asking is a failure, I would say.
So when we ask that question and when you find who is who is coming to you with a suggestion or a guidance and you find someone being approachable or being able to help you in the direction that you want, you can approach them, say hey, can you help mentor me? Or I do you have time or bandwidth to support Me and they may say yes or they may say no and it's okay because you have tried asking and. Or they may say oh maybe this person can do better job. Oh then you can reach out to them. So it's always I believe it's on us to find that mentor because it's our career that we should be driving and asking for help, looking ways to improve every day. Yeah. I think that's where always keep on the look for better opportunities.
Someone can mentor us or guide in that direction.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It's one of those things you have to get out of your comfort zone and ultimately if you don't ask, you don't get. So it's better to ask the question and see what the result can be.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: True.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: And what would you say the core ingredients of a truly high performing engineering team are?
Obviously technical skills play a part in that. But beyond the technical abilities as well.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I think huge part is the trust. It starts with the trust because I think when we start with it people don't. People, people hold back if they don't feel they can share or they can grow together.
So I think the transparent communication, being able to share openly, surfacing those concerns early so that we are all aligned together for a common goal. We have lots of okrs or goals that we want to achieve by end of the quarter or year. But if we cannot work together in the environment where we can share and talk freely, feeling that safety to fail, sometimes that will be a big one. Or having that open space to have that conversation discussing what works and what doesn't, enabling that environment.
These are few of the core areas for having that high performance team technical skills. Yes, we can develop over time.
Um, but if we have that more but not rest of it like having that culture in the team where we cannot collaborate then it. That will be a challenge.
So yeah, yeah. So the collaboration and knowledge sharing and be feeling that inclusion in the teams where everyone feels valued and their voice matters.
So when they're feeling included, they contribute more, they feel cared for and they feel like they're part of the group.
They would want to more thoughts and they may want to. They may also go do few steps, trying few things on their own and say hey, I tried this and this did not work or this worked.
Yeah. So these are all steps for that high performing teams.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And there's phrases out there that you know, you often hear. Trust is something to be earned or to be built. So what's your approach to it? If you know you have new team Members that are joining, is trust something to be immediately given or is it something that is built over time?
How are you able to, I guess, navigate that a little bit better?
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great question.
Definitely built over time. We cannot say, hey, just trust me. Doesn't work that way.
We get to know each other more. It's just forming a new relationship, forming that bond. We connect maybe over a coffee, over a lunch, get to know them more. What are they outside of their job as a person? What do they like to do, what's their interests are.
Maybe they're good at something that maybe we have something common to share as well that we connect on. Building that bond and knowing them deeply from the personal level and what drives their career and what's what motivates them. So when I understand that a little bit more, I think the work happens easy and the trust forms naturally.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Because I know what will work for us both and then I can help guide in that direction. So, yeah, getting to know them personally, I think that's the biggest factor for me to build that trust.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I guess moving on to that as well. How do you set expectations and create clarity without micromanaging?
[00:10:59] Speaker B: So, yeah, this is the biggest one. Right. You want to be across what's happening with the clear tasks and goals, but at the same time, don't want to overstep, but let the teams handle on their own. I think it starts with being really clear about what you're looking for and why it matters, why the task is being clear in the definition of how it should look like when it is done, and letting the team take that control or ownership themselves and then maybe proactively share the updates or where they are at. So we don't need to follow up as much allowing them that flexibility so that they're not feeling like the pressure to, oh, I have to come back so and so time. But they have all the full control how they would like to handle the task.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: So I think ownership is a big part of this. I read somewhere that give people the ownership and they will rise to the occasion.
So I think allowing that ownership, they naturally feel like, okay, I'm owning this and I'm responsible to come back with certain updates or a progress on this.
And so there's no scope or requirement of micromanaging here because they already feel responsible for what they were given for.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And do you think, like, the updates that should come within, for example, a timeframe of a week, like, do you think an engineering team can have A daily stand up say at the start of the week or every two weeks or do you think check in a few times a week. What's your stance on that?
[00:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah, so we have daily standups where we generally talk about any blockers or workloads that are paused or need some help on. But otherwise for bigger initiatives we set up some progress trackers where anyone can open the dashboard and view where the status is at and how things are progressing.
Yeah, but I generally let the team handle how they would like to share the progress in what whatever form it is. It could be a document format or a cards format or just a slack random message or however it is just sharing that progress. It also helps them being accountable in that manner because they pick that and when they share update they'll also know what update are they sharing which means they have to do a pre work for that.
It doesn't fall apart but it maybe keeps them more engaging with their peers as well to collaborate together and keep progressing and it's fine to not have an update as well and that time they can share. There's not much happening this week and we may hear more next week which is also okay. So I think in all this, keeping that space open for questions, acknowledging that clarity wouldn't happen immediately but they're always open to come back for any questions or clarity on the go.
So I think allowing that safe space again will help them to say there is no update at all, which is fine. So yeah, I think that encourages the
[00:14:06] Speaker A: team and it's pretty good that yeah there's visibility I guess for everyone to see each other's work if they do sign on to a particular platform and things like that, that's quite special as well. And again gives them the flexibility to update it and have that accountability base.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Awesome.
And I'm sure throughout your career, you know, across, you know, a multiple amount of companies, you've certainly seen your fair share of conflict.
So what's your go to approach when tension does rise within teams?
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I think conflict is something every team experiences. I think no matter the structure, function or maturity where we are at because we are all humans and with different personalities and different styles of working.
So I think friction is very normal.
I've seen conflict arise at different layers but my approach always starts with observation.
So I try to understand where it's actually coming from rather than jumping into conclusions then going with the attention to listen but not judge because hear their perspectives, understand what they're feeling, acknowledge what they're going through maybe just sometimes people just need to feel heard, they want to vent up.
And when it usually happens, creating that space to open up, to understand and guide them towards resolving the con constructively.
Sharing a feedback or something. Sometimes they might not see from the other perspective because they're going through the situation their own way.
So maybe asking light questions, how do you see that working for you or not working for you, enabling them to answer certain things maybe. Yeah, that will help bring something out of that situation. Maybe just listening first, acknowledging the feelings and creating that space for new perspectives.
Yeah, that's how I would look to deal with any conflict.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: And I guess sometimes as well it could be giving them the courage perhaps to go directly A to B rather than A to B to see. And I guess perhaps having a direct conversation as well could be beneficial.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Sharing those few practical tips or perspectives that was not already considered.
And sometimes these conflicts happen with misunderstandings or assumptions and not having that reflect or never been able to share openly. So understanding the drive behind it and resolving it step by step.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like conflict's just a natural part of life. So yeah, being able to deal with it effectively is key.
And finally, how do you build trust with technical team members if you yourself or you know, if somebody doesn't necessarily come from a hands on background.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think trust doesn't come from being the most technical person. I think it comes up how we show as a leader as we covered a little earlier. I think knowing them personally, understanding what motivates them, what drives them and how they are as a person outside of work and everything, building that rapport with each of the team member and start.
And also even when the workloads like being very clear about the outcomes, sometimes the ambiguity causes the confusion and not knowing what is expected out of any job.
So I think I read again somewhere that clear is kind, unclear is unkind.
So when you're being clear. Yeah, yeah, that kind of resonated very much because if you're not clear, we cannot expect that clarity coming from anyone else as well. So always being clear about what outcomes we need and then trusting the team to design that solution because they are the experts.
So I take, let them take the lead instead of involving my step in every way asking everything but let them own that part and come back with an option or a solution or outcome.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Also making the space work for them, recognizing their success, sharing that broadly within the teams what was done and delivered.
So in all of this I think staying curious, asking something, even if it's a dumb question, just because we want to know more about it or because when they are the experts asking them like, okay, how does this work? Or what am I missing here? Just being open about things that I do not know instead of pretending like I know it all. But it's more like accepting, yeah, this is an unknown area for me. Like because the team knows or works on it day in, day out.
So how is it that we can all move forward from here?
So I think, yeah, building trust by trusting in their abilities to resolve it.
[00:19:51] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. We're also strong believers. There's no such thing as a dumb or silly question. If anything, you're just regaining a bit of clarity and you'd rather ask the question, get the clear answer rather than waste time umming and arring about what. What has to be done. So it's. Yeah, certainly a good approach.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Sirisha, and sharing your insights on leadership. It's been an absolute pleasure having you.
And thank you everyone to tuning into another episode of Her Heads in the Cloud.
